[MOSAIC] Comprehension (long &personal for those who care to delete)

[thomas]

All this reminds me of the time when I was teaching 9th grade and totally at
loss for why students didn't or couldn't read with meaning or write or want
to write.  That year started me on a search....that led me to my doctorate
and to the national reading/writing projects and all.  It also led me back
to elementary school (and I did go back - or "up" - to walk the walk - but I
came to see at least some of the problem as the unintended results of
previous schooling. The conditions at elementary now are exacerbating the
situation from then but I think some of the roots are still the same.

Too much of what is done in elementary is doing SCHOOL.  Writing power
paragraphs or 5 paragraph essays.  Decoding - getting the words right.
Reading fast.... All of it.  I even get on primary teachers for doing
"cute."  By that I mean using all kinds of cute paper to write on, thinking
of cute topics and so on. Kids need to learn in authentic contexts, for
authentic purposes, using  authentic processes from the beginning.  I see
children starting to see school as doing school things - not real things -
by 3rd grade or so.  From there, some kids just shut down and rebel/refuse
or get by with the minimal work.  My 9th graders were mad at me cuz I
wouldn't just assign exercises in the grammar book.   They could churn those
out to get points and no personal cost of writing.  Other kids learn to play
the school game IF they actually see college as a possibity due to family or
various other sorts of pushing. But they pay a price as well focusing on
points and grades and so on....doing enough to please the teacher, enough to
get a grade, but still not focused on learning.

The students in my six year longitudinal research (from their experience in
a progressive elementary and my 5/6 class through a very traditional junior
high and a high pressure high school) talked about this eloquently in an
article we all published together in Theory into Practice.  They also had
choice metaphors to use to distinguish between their elementary experience
and their junior high....things like if school were a tv show what would it
be.  They said their elementary was like the McNeil Lehrer news hour and
their junior high was like jeopardy.  Nikki tried to explain to district
mentor teachers in one project why it was important not to have grades at
elementary.  As she said, she believed in her abilities as she moved into
junior high.  But her sister, who was getting a C in math in elementary
didn't believe in herself or that she was a good math student.  Nikki
suggested that kids needed to believe in themselves first, focusing on
learning, not grades.  But that they could handle grades later as all of
these students did eventually handle them.  Some interesting stuff.  But it
all says we need to pay real attention to what kids internalize as the
meaning of their schooling and various aspects of that schooling at all the
different ages.  That is at least as important as the content of what they
are learning in my view.

It is really hard to turn this around once the kids experience years and
years of SCHOOL.  That's why I believed then and do now that elementary
matters so much.  It wasn't impossible but really hard to do more meaningful
work with my high school kids.  And most of the high school teachers weren't
interested in the effort it would take.  Of course they hadn't seen as much
of the big picture as I was fortunate enough to see.  I think the situation
is really difficult when a good teacher who respects kids as much as Bill
does is being completely burned out by the situation.

So Bill I would ask what is happening in the elementary years at your feeder
schools for one part of the answer.  I know a part of it is societal as well
but I always try to focus on the parts that I have some control over.

Am also wondering about using Freedom Writers - the movie and the book?
Just a though.

Sally 


On 3/11/07 11:48 AM, "Kukonis at aol.com" <Kukonis at aol.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> Dave said....
> But I 
> don't know.  I would have thought that, having been a young  person, I would
> be able to recognize myself in today's young people.   And sometimes I do.
> But Bill's kids leave me completely without reference  points.
>  
> I have been following this conversation with earnest... and though  certainly
> not an answer I do have some schema I would like to put out there as a
> mother of a senior in high school and  a senior in college as well as my
> thoughts 
> as a first grade teacher . Probably not to PC but here  goes....
> 
> First, I am thankful that Bill brought this to attention because it is hard
> to suffer through class after class and then read on the listserv everybody
> else's insightful ideas... esp. when you've tried versions of them...I often
> see  the kind of stuff Bill is talking about in my first grade class and I
> don't 
>  always attribute it to their lack of interest....maybe it is easier to see
> it  more  this way because they are so young......how could a little one look
> apathetic or uninvolved in everything?
> However, when stuff is not connecting I can usually sight developmental
> levels, parental values, inconsistent modeling, overabundance of information,
> other talents not being tapped, poor sequencing of skills, (and the list goes
> on) as part of the problem... and usually it is on my end.... not that  I am
> not 
> trying everything I can think of ...but the demands of  school, kids, and
> personal life seem to crash into one another....... on  their side and mine;
>  
> At the older level, I can see it from my  daughters' perspectives.... they
> are both excellent students, both  have won scholarships... both are very
> different .... however,  there have been  periods in their lives where I see
> lack of 
> interest  big time. When questioned they usually say :too much too soon.....
> can't fit in  all that I have to do and what I want to do  and the wealth of
> instantaneous information out there into a cohesive whole... in other words
> school is relentless... I tend to agree...... and also the trickle down effect
> is HUGE watching it first hand. I think there are times in kids' lives when
> things need to be self-directed or when they need a down time to adjust to the
>  next big thrust
>  
> Although no real answers for Bill..... this discussion reminds me of the
> power of pace and sequence, the need to engage the whole life of the child.
> blah, blah, blah. Reminds me of something Lori wrote back about having kids
> attention ... that when they are attending they are not necessarily connecting
> .....
> Pam
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